Source: Mormon Church SUED for Not Reporting Unspeakable Confessions (the Verdict) ft. Kolby Reddish Channel: Cults to Consciousness Published: November 11, 2023 | Archived: May 24, 2026

Video: Mormon Church SUED for Not Reporting Unspeakable Confessions (the Verdict) ft. Kolby Reddish
Channel: Cults to Consciousness
Published: November 11, 2023
Duration: 49:32
Views: 59,753
Category: Education
Video ID: jDA3ePAqXaI

Description

Going in depth with former guest and current lawyer Kolby Reddish to further discuss and understand how the LDS church got away with protecting a C S A offender for years.

Check out our interviews with Kolby:
Mormonism On Trial: Ex-Mormon Lawyer Challenges Truth Claims https://youtu.be/PU7MfRMoreg?si=LoPFgZ60M_LCgLrg

How a Mormon Lawyer Lost His Faith Ft. Kolby Reddish https://youtu.be/e7YuCEp8Nh0?si=FmuqoB_G5FlyCAoG

Click below to be the first to know about our C2C vacation! https://my.trovatrip.com/public/l/email/cults-to-consciousness

Support Shelise Any donations are welcome and appreciated to support the making of this podcast

Find our FULL (uncensored) merch store here! https://cults-to-consciousness-shop.fourthwall.com/en-usd Patreon https://www.patreon.com/cultstoconsciousness Venmo @sheliseann

Find Shelise on Social media! Instagram @cultstoconsciousness https://www.instagram.com/cultstoconsiousness Host Instagram @sheliseann https://www.instagram.com/sheliseann/ TikTok @cults.to.consciousness https://www.tiktok.com/@cults.to.consciousness Twitter @cultstocon https://twitter.com/cultstocon

Theme Song Produced and Composed by Christian Guevara

Transcript — YouTube panel (human-authored)

0:00 \[Music\] good morning everyone welcome to Colt to Consciousness thank you for spending our morning with us your morning with us if you are in the states you’re maybe between like 9 and noon perhaps but I’m here joined with Colby reddish thank you so much for joining us Colby yeah of course thanks chalice happy to be with you this morning yeah Colby is a good friend of ours and he was actually on the show how long ago was that maybe like eight months ago or something crazy yeah I think something like that yeah we did an entire episode called Mormonism on trial we talk about his story talk about because he was a lawyer how things just didn’t add up anymore as far as being Mormon and basically your deconstruction story which was really great we should definitely link those in the description after this is done I’m going to link those so people can go watch them if they’d like but the reason I asked Colby on is because we are

1:03 discussing a very intense case and the news just broke a couple days ago I want to make sure I get the legal jargon right because I have messed up in the past sorry guys I do my best but I’m not a lawyer Colby is so he is here to walk us through this trial if you’ve seen the title you know that it is really disturbing stuff we’re going to be talking about in fact this is a disclaimer a trigger warning it is a very very heavy topic matter it will involve children we will be using the abbreviation CSA and if you’re not sure what that means we’ll tag it in the comments the reason we do this is not because we don’t want to say the the trigger words the harsh words it’s because if we do YouTube will flag our video unfortunately or age restrict it and we believe that getting as many eyes as possible on this is more important than saying those words so bear with us don’t get mad at YouTube they’re just trying to keep the platform safe so we’re just going to do our best to kind of work

2:02 around those words as well as talk about the gravity of this situation because it is extremely heavy guys and there’s just a lot to get into about why we are so upset with the Mormon Church the Church of Jesus Christ of latterday saints for what is going on so Colby I’m going to give you the floor would you mind just giving us a brief overview of the case and then we’ll dive in a little bit deeper yeah so within the last week the um there was a a case involving CSA and the Mormon church that was reported on last August it was really first reported on on the national scene last August by Mike rendez and it comes out of Arizona and it involves basically the um well the fact that two Mormon Bishops knew about CSA from a man named Paul Adams that was um you know engaging in abuse of two of his children including one daughter that was only six weeks old when the abuse started it’s it’s a really really horrifying and disgusting case and I would really advise people

3:07 I’m going to give just a very brief overview but if you want to follow all of the things um about this case you can read every single transcript you can read the Court decisions and I know because I’ve accessed those publicly and I’ve done that um and so this case is really problematic because there are um what most people know as mandatory reporting statutes right right so there are different different contact points uh usually doctors teachers um psychologists counselors uh clergy that in Most states are required by law to report um CSA if they find out about it and if they have good reason to believe that it’s true they’re required to report that basically to authorities like child protective services and in some states Arizona included there are statutes that allow for an exception from those mandatory reporting laws if the clergy if it’s a clergyman that learns of the uh abuse in the context of

4:06 a confidential confession or a confidential like communication regarding you know repentance that’s the idea behind these types of statutes not all states have this exemption I think it’s actually the minority I’d have to go pull them all in check but all states have a mandatory reporting statute and really the lawsuit here in this case is being brought on behalf of the the daughters who were abused by Mr Adams and they’re alleging that the Mormon Church through two different Bishops and other church leaders knew of their abuse and failed to report now originally the trial court found that the the privilege that attached in this case the exemption from that reporting statute had been waved by Mr Adams posting videos and things online regarding the abuse the um that decision was overturned and now the case has been dismissed and that’s really what we’re here to talk about is like why was the case dismissed and what

5:03 exactly does that mean before we get started though one of the things I just wanted to highlight is um and we talked about this in our last episode chalise like the beginning steps of my deconstruction and and and exit out of the Mormon Church really were attached to the fact that my local Bishop was also abusing kids and I saw the exact same situation Happening Here locally not not not to the extent but it was the exact same pattern of where I live Idaho is just like Arizona it has an optional exemption from this reporting statute and the church lawyers basically gave bad advice just like they did in this case that didn’t you know adequately draw to church leaders attention that they could report if they wanted to and you know I know that this is a really sensitive topic um and I know that every time I come on either your podcast or other podcasts I get a bunch of believers who you know attack or say things about me after the fact and one

6:00 of the things I just wanted to highlight is that this situation I I don’t think there’s any excuse for this situation I don’t think there’s any apologetics that can be spun in this situation and if people ask me why I feel so strongly about this one of the reasons is because of lessons I learned inside of Mormonism ironically that now you know on the outside I still believe in and one of those I just wanted to highlight at the outset is in 2003 James fa and you probably remember because we’re about the same age he was in uh Gordon B hinkley’s first presidency and he once said in 2003 talking at the church’s law school by the way he said there is great risk in justifying what we do individually and professionally on the basis of what is legal rather than what is right in so doing we put our very Souls at risk the philosophy that what is legal is also what is Right will rob us of what is highest and best in our nature what conduct is legal or sorry what conduct is actually legal is in many instances way below the

6:57 standards of a civilized society and Lighty years below the teachings of Jesus Christ if you accept what is legal as your standard of personal or professional conduct you deny yourself that which is truly Noble in your personal dignity and worth and so obviously I don’t believe some of the theological claims there but as far as just a human being I absolutely and as a lawyer I absolutely believe that what is legal is not always right and vice versa any thoughts on that quote to open is that kind of the way you were raised also yeah I think what I can recall from my own childhood is basically you go to the church first if you have an issue at home you go tell the bishop like it was never in my purview that police should get involved but again I wasn’t really having the type of experiences to Warrant that so I don’t know exactly if I’m just am like living in a bubble in Utah growing up which I may have but what I clearly remember is if there is any issue going on in your

7:58 family it’s the bishop that you see even if it’s extremely personal the bishop should not be involved in something like that I remember having very personal weird family conversations with the bishop instead of my family and thinking why am I here this feels really weird so that’s my perception of growing up in Mormonism was just you don’t go to anyone else you just go to the church and that’s exactly what happened here with these Bishops because they’re told to call a helpl line and not call authorities and so can you explain to us what that helpline is about within the church standards or the church handbook well according to what the church’s handbook says um the reporting that mandator or I’m sorry man not mandatory reporting that helpline is there to help church leaders understand their need to report one of the things that Mike rendez I think in his original story with the Associated Press last August one of the points he’s trying to make is

9:02 that if you look at the pattern and I’m not saying this is the intent because I don’t believe it’s the intent I think this is just mismanagement like colossal mismanagement is that the helpl line is unfortunately being used basically to silence victims rather than to further the interest of victims that it’s being used to create basically that it’s being used by Curt and makoni and by the church’s other um legal actors to basically say if we don’t have a duty to report then we aren’t and that’s exactly what happened in this case in fact the attorney somehow they’ve gotten access to what the attorney like notes or something that he communicated with these Bishops and one of the things he told them was that they absolutely could not report or that they could not say anything and the bottom line is even according to the judge’s decision dismissing the case um based on the fact that the the clergy penitent privilege applied that wasn’t the truth it’s a

9:57 permissive in other words it’s an optional exception it’s an optional thing that keeps the state that keeps the church from not necessarily having to report it is a choice and in this case it’s just indisputable that the church decided not to and that they’ve won the case on that very basis yeah and let’s get into the weeds with that first I want to mention that for those who aren’t aware Mormon Bishops are not trained in any sort of clergy capacity to have this role over this entire congregation and to have these personal one-on-one interviews again if you aren’t aware about confessions you go in as early as 12 years old and confess sexual sins I’m doing this in air quotes if you’re only listening because it’s in my opinion CSA just make just being in a room alone with an old man prying into my sex life as a child like that is already I have a huge issue with it and it’s something that I’ve had to deconstruct after after leaving for 12 years because so many

11:01 times I’m like oh yeah and then we would confess to the bishop like you don’t even have anything to confess you don’t even understand what sexuality is there’s like this a whole different discussion but I’m realizing as I get older and deconstruct that that in itself is very abusive in my opinion so you have this guy who’s like the neighborhood plumber or dentist or just your neighbor or maybe it’s your friend’s dad who is called to this position and holds this author uity and it’s supposed to speak for God on your behalf and it’s supposed to Grant you forgiveness for whatever thing you’ve done wrong and the problem with that is they’re just not trained they’re not equipped to handle these conversations to begin with so I know a lot of people are going to want to point the fingers at the bishop which yes but also realizing where this bishop is coming from not having any experience he’s not a lawyer he doesn’t know what the rules are he is just going along along with

11:59 okay what do I do okay I’m going to call the helpline because that’s what they told me to do and when he does he’s literally told by the attorneys by the church’s official attorneys the makoni office to not report it and so I don’t know I mean there of course there’s some people who have spoken out um shoot I always forget the bishop’s name who was excommunicated because Sam young did not want to do one-on-one interviews with children and talk about their sex so yes there are people who are able to stand up and be like no something feels wrong but I just have to point out the indoctrination especially if you’re born and raised in this you are not taught to question anything you’re not taught to listen to your intuition you’re just told to go with what they tell you to do and if the higher ups if the people at the top are telling you don’t report this chances are you’re not going to and so I just had to point that out but can

12:57 you speak on a little a little bit as far as like the inner workings because I know you’re famili familiar with the case on how um Elder MC’s office did have multiple interactions with these Bishops yeah so one of the things that we do know is that the Bishops were you know that they were basically trying to work with Paul for years and work with the mother um for years to try and get this Behavior to stop um but one of the things they never did was you know called police um one of the the headline of Mike rendez August piece is about how church leaders knew about this um you know CSA for seven years before anything was done and it wasn’t ultimately the church that did anything Paul Paul Adams was basically recording himself doing these acts of abuse on his kids and they were they were actually discovered clear around the world in New Zealand um so Department of Homeland security got involved and uh that’s basically a follow-up investigation is How It ultimately came to light um one of the

14:06 things I wanted to to read um I I really like your comments sh Le too by the way about the Bishops because I do have a lot of charity for them um the law is really complicated like even for lawyers like we you know have to read things multiple times and talk with each other sometimes about how it all works um and so I don’t fault them for not knowing what the law is um I do kind of question the excuse of well I was just being you know I was just doing what I was being told you’re absolutely right that that’s what Mormonism conditions you to do conditions you in this kind of form of infantilization of being okay with being told to do things that are really really questionable but I still think you know they’s still people and I don’t while I can understand and sympathize and I’m sure it’s been really really difficult on them as this case has come to light I still think they completely failed and if we look at at that that quote that we read at the you know at the start of

15:01 this from James fa I think he would also agree that they would failed um one of the quotes I wanted to read from the actual transcripts that kind of I think underlies or like underlines the the role that the Bishops played in this case is basically that they could have been a stop to this um obviously they can’t have stopped it when in you know they can’t have stopped Paul Adams from ever originally doing this type of conduct but when it came to their when it came to their knowledge that’s basically what the sentencing judge in the mother’s uh criminal prosecution case highlighted so I want to read a quote from um the transcripts of that sentencing so the judge said to miss Adams and a sentencing judge by the way is gonna have heard a lot of different evidence in reaching this conclusion this is one of the the reasons that I think Mike brendes really highlighted the role that the church had was this statement from this uh sentencing so I’ll go ahead and read that transcript

15:55 now uh that part of the transcript the judge said to her Miss Adams if you had done what you should have done or could have done back in either 2010 or 2011 it’s a little unclear to me whether it was one year or the other year when you first learned for a certainty what your husband had done with your older daughter if you had called the police if well I didn’t hear from the bishop directly he wasn’t here to testify so I’m hesitant to make judgments or pronouncements about his situation when I haven’t heard directly from him but I will say had he called the police or taken some action rather than apparently acted out of Hope rather than out of some sense of responsibility for these children he had had he done something had you done something Miss Adams back in 2010 or 2011 these crimes wouldn’t have happened count one happened in 2015 count two happened somewhere between or within the time span of 2015 and 2017 those things wouldn’t have happened if when the bishop called you in here and

16:51 said listen to what Paul is telling me about I’m going to substitute a word here abusing your at that time your only daughter if you had done something if the bishop had done something if someone had acted out of a sense to help these children and not worrying about well am I going to get in a problem with this church or things along those lines whatever people were thinking if people were acting out of a sense of responsibility for these children then these two crimes wouldn’t have happened at all against the older child she still would have been the victim of Mr Adam’s conduct up to that point but it wouldn’t have continued it wouldn’t have continued and the second daughter wouldn’t have been victimized at all because she hadn’t been born yet but she wasn’t protected she wasn’t protected by you she wasn’t protected by the bishop she wasn’t protected certainly not by her father she wasn’t protected by anybody that’s this that’s what the

17:39 sentencing judge felt and so you can understand why people why the lawsuit against the church basically preceded and was dismissed this week so this is news to me and I should have dived into this a little bit more but I have you here so I’m glad that I have you here to give more details I didn’t realize that Mom knew yes okay that’s Mom knew oh okay I feel like that changes things quite a bit because it’s not just the the guy the dad the perpetrator going into the bishop and feeling remorse and feeling sorry and the bishop not knowing what to do like uh what do I do call the call the church office don’t say anything this is the mother of the child who was being abused perpetually she knew and didn’t do anything that to me is astonishing yeah I I think in so many ways the judge nailed nailed it so many people failed these poor children that’s the reality of this case and one of the things that’s that’s just so mind boggly to me is that you know the church did like a press release yesterday like celebrating the fact that this case was

19:00 dismissed at least for now there’s the potential that the children are going to get to appeal the judge’s decision and so we’ll see how that that works up but you know I I don’t believe that was the intended effect obviously I don’t believe that the church intends for child abuse to ever happen but the fact that you don’t intend something to happen doesn’t mean that it’s a that it isn’t a result of your policy decisions or your policies or your conduct and so that’s the part of this case that makes me so sick is that I feel like Mormonism raised me different than this better than this to not allow for this type of thing to happen I can just tell you um as someone who does have to have you know privileged communication and understands attorney client privilege very well that there there would be no way that I would be okay with not saying something if if reporting on um if reporting on someone

19:55 cost me my law license but it saved a child that’s that’s fine like I’m fine with that calculus right I that’s one of the reasons I don’t do criminal law anymore is so that I don’t have to deal with that type of um that type of Darkness that type of pain um yeah and I think one of the things that also just makes me so sad about this case is that um as silly as some of the Mormon theological beliefs are and as problematic as some of them are Mormons for the most part are otherwise very very good kind people I think they have some very misaligned priorities because of the way the church is like conditioned and raise them but for the most part I think Mormons really really try to be kind to people around them and um I think the church is taking advantage of them on this issue that the church continues to claim that it cares about victims while it’s you know using these optional uh clergy penitent

20:51 privileges to not report um ongoing CSA cases and I just you know I just can’t stomach that um I wish more members would wake up and they have there have been some that have tried to like hold the church accountable like you highlighted um Sam young and others um there’s an organization actually called floodlit that um tries to draw attention to the fact that there’s so much abuse in the LDS church and the way that the church responds to it um I wanted to read one other thing so when rendes reported on this case back last August um the church did not just one but two different press releases kind of outlining their take on the facts of the case and I want to read from their second press release which was from later in August okay the church stated in connection with this very case the church I’m going to read um a few paragraphs of that the introduction to that press release they read they they stated for Generations leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of latterday Saints have spoken in the strongest of terms about the evils of abuse and the

21:55 need to care for those who are victims of survivors from the Thundering rebuke of former president Gordon B hinley to the recent words of healing offered by Elder Patrick Kieran of the presidency of the 70 our feelings are clear we Echo those sentiments and teachings today our hearts are broken as we learn of any abuse it cannot be tolerated it cannot be excused the Savior Jesus Christ wants us all to do better and be better it is important to us that our members and Friends understand how deeply we feel um sorry how How Deeply we feel about this important matter and that they have accurate information about how we approach this matter church leaders and members are instructed in the church’s General handbook that their priorities related to abuse are as follows number one assure that child sexual abuse is stopped number two help victims receive care including from professionals number three comply with whatever reporting is required by law and I think really what I wanted to

22:50 highlight is that like that’s just a lie based on the facts of this case alone like to hold up as some type of victory that this case was dismissed because they complied with the bare minimum of the law right those priorities are exactly backwards according to what the church said about this very case and then you know the church also has an entire um section on their website about abuse like a topic they have like these topic not the gospel topics essays but they have these like topic pages and I pulled this quote right from the church’s website on abuse yesterday it says the first responsibility of church leaders is to help those who have been abused and to protect those who may be vulnerable to Future abuse and so I guess I just ask you chalise you know I I know that some of the legal stuff can get technical but like that’s what the church says its priorities are do you see those priorities reflected in the church’s Behavior connected with this

23:46 case well no I mean it’s it’s very clear to me that they don’t care about the children in these cases they just care about protecting their image and I wanted to get into this as a topic of discussion for today because I feel like that is literally the only thing that makes sense to me based on how they’ve handled this and how they’re celebrating this win and how we’re also going to get into how they’re lobbying to continue to have this law in place so they don’t have to report abusers and it’s just so frustrating and and it also hits very close to home for me this particular story so it’s hard for me to kind of get through the level head because I’m already reeling and spinning out here but I think what is so obvious is that they will say all of these plated things of course we don’t want this to happen of course we want to protect the kids protect the kids and family is everything and and on the outside people believe it and like you were saying the members are generally really good people and they believe it

24:51 with their whole Hearts because why wouldn’t they the church that they love that they believe is the one true church on Earth wants to protect kids so why would it be any different and then you see cases like this where they are actively protecting the abuser and to me it’s just they will say whatever they need to say to get people to stay on their side and not point fingers at them but behind closed doors they are not protecting kids they’re protecting their image because what would happen if all of these cases came out if the church was getting sued right and left for not reporting or whatever the case may be now the church has to say oh I guess we do breed abusers or I guess abuse is rampant in the church they would have to admit that something is still off that just because you’re a member it doesn’t mean you have the spirit of the Lord or whatever and I know they talk about like yes if you sin this Holy Ghost goes away but it’s just everything points to they

25:51 don’t want to be seen as a church with sexual abusers right it just feels like they’re hand handling it in such a way to protect the Mormon Corporation or the LDS Corporation because they don’t use Mormon anymore because that’s bad for Branding they are just trying to keep it together and make their members believe they’re doing everything they can to protect those kids when clearly they are not yeah and that’s exactly what I was going to say you know I feel like we could apply the principle of Charity I definitely think the end result is that especially in this case and in other cases I’ve looked at and reviewed the church Behavior ends up protecting and shielding the abuser I don’t believe that’s the intent and I want to be really clear about that I don’t think they go in thinking we’re going to protect abusers I think like you hit the nail on the head like I think it’s just a very very messed up Priority in a system that believes it’s immune to criticism like if you really believe

26:49 that you know these lawyers are making the calls that Jesus would make you’re just kidding yourself like Elder fa even said it like the law Arizona and the judge’s decision yesterday or not yesterday but earlier this week dismissing the case made clear that this was an optional this was an optional exemption like they could have reported and Paul Adams couldn’t have sued them uh the mother couldn’t have sued them like I mean I guess technically I should say anyone can sue anyone for any reason but like it would just be dismissed very EAS you know very easily very early in the case and like also how does that look like you’re abusing your kids and you’re going to sue the church like anyone’s ever going to side with an abuser in court over a church that took steps to report and that’s I think that’s one of the things is like you know in these states where it’s an option to report in some states churches are required to report I know that like a state like California is in that is in

27:45 that type of there’s basically like these different um jurisdictional decisions and I I think California is one that does not have an exemption States like Idaho Utah and Arizona do have a clergy penitent privilege slash reporting exemption and there is and I think one of the things I wanted to highlight is the Arizona statute here and the judge’s decision Builds on this it allows for the clergy not to report and I’m going to quote from the statute if the priest or member of the clergy determines that it is reasonable and necessary within the concepts of the religion so that’s the effect of what the church’s argument was in this case that they believe in confidential Communications so much that it’s reasonable and necessary under the concepts of their religion not to report and that’s one of the reasons I wanted to read those those lines from the press release and from the handbook because it’s like I don’t even think that’s correct like I know that courts are very

28:40 um reticent to Second guest like a religious institution’s representations about what its doctrines are but you have clear lines on the church’s website today and in its handbook today that are basically indicating that it protects victims when it when it doesn’t and that’s the part that bothers me it bothers me very badly that like you highlighted and this is again reported by Mike rendez in his Associated Press story that the church has worked with other churches to Lobby to keep these um exemptions in place for reporting and I don’t exactly know why I don’t want to like guess because I’ve never actually seen those lobbying documents and stuff myself I just know that it’s been reported um that the church has worked with other churches to do that but one of the things that makes me so mad is like if the law gives you the option not to report why can’t you just be honest about the fact that that’s what you’re

29:30 doing but instead you’re representing to your members and to the rest of the world that you put victims first when you very clearly don’t based on the facts of this case based on the facts of my local case and based on the facts of other cases that I’ve looked at floodlit has I think floodlit dorg has thousands of entries of Mormon sex abuse and and outlines like what the person’s calling was what their you know all the news stories connected to it like if people think this is some outlier case Paul Adams was an absolute monster and the church isn’t responsible wholly for obviously his behavior but they could have stopped it and that’s the point is that I was raised ironically inside of Mormonism to believe that if you can help people you have a duty to help those people so I don’t understand why the church can’t take its own medicine and do what it taught me and people like you that are now outside of it to do if you say you prioritize victims then do it

30:28 period yeah absolutely agree and there’s a few things I wanted to touch on with everything that you just said well said by the way I put this comment on the screen because it’s mentioning mentioning Catholicism and from what I read in one of the articles about this case was that the Catholic Church Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Mormon Church were all lobbying together to keep these privileged laws in place because they don’t want to be mandatory reporters is that right as far as your aware that’s that is what has been reported by Mike rendes yeah okay okay um the other thing that I wanted to mention oh man it’s just been so hard to get through um the fact that the church is just saying the Mormon church is just saying well we report when we feel like it’s necessary and I’m thinking you didn’t think that this was a case where you should have immediately called the police and got this man in prison

31:30 because he was recording the abuse and putting it online and I’m trying very hard not to cry right now and it was out there in the world the only reason this man got caught was because Homeland Security found the video like you said in was New Zealand and they were like oh we should do something about this because this is horrific and that is how this man got caught meanwhile these Bishops knew about this abuse and it continued for years years and like you said before and I’m just like really drilling it in so people can have a full understanding like right in front of you this is the dirty filthy disgusting truth it went from the the oldest daughter to the next daughter it continued through multiple children and the Mormon church was like no do not report this why why and I want to get your opinion is it ju do you think it’s just because of the image thing why else would they tell this man this bishop

32:38 multiple times because they had multiple meetings with the law offices why would they tell them tell him not to report this yeah before I answer that question one of the things I want to highlight is in the church’s second press release they really dispute rendez um reporting on how much the Bishops knew and how often they were meeting with um the you know the Kurt makoni law office or or speaking to one of the church’s legal team but that discussion continued between two Bishops over multiple years that’s that’s been outlined even in uh the the story talking about the dismissal of this case and so for anyone who thinks like well maybe the church just didn’t know the extent of it I’m sure that’s true to a degree but the bottom line is they knew this abuse was ongoing you don’t meet with multiple Bishops over multiple years and not know that this is an ongoing problem yeah so to get back to answer your question I I do

33:35 think that like I don’t think this is by Design I I don’t I don’t fully understand why the church doesn’t just come out and have a universal policy that says guess what we’re putting this in our handbook right now so that you know if you come to a bishop and you’re telling them that you’re abusing kids our policy is we just report always anytime we have the option which no matter what the law says right and that so that’s another important piece is people are often very confused about this and say that the law like prevented the bishops from reporting that absolutely wasn’t the case in Arizona it’s not the case in Idaho it’s not the case in Utah and as far as I know it’s not the case anywhere in the United States that the law actively prevents a clergyman from reporting it gives them an option not to if they consider it um if they consider it part of you know their religious practices and that’s of the reasons that you know when when Cammy my wife and I really um after we

34:33 appeared on Mormon stories and really got involved in trying to understand the the issue of CSA in the Mormon church we tried to work with Salt Lake to improve its policies and we were just completely blown off just like you know basically Sam young was um ultimately they did adopt some of his recommendations not all of them um but yeah I I do think it’s I do think it is this whole broken image of well we need to protect the good name of the the church I think that’s what it is um and I really don’t understand it because the church would just get a lot more uh quarter it would get a lot more um legitimacy if it would just have that clear policy which some other denominations have by the way they have the policy of we don’t shelter sex abusers period yeah and we report the instant you tell us guess what it’s going to be reported and as long as that is a clear stated policy of the church which it could do tomorrow if it wanted to

35:27 then uh no one can really complain about it if it’s in the the manual they could just hold it out to any potential lawsuit challenging them you know disclosing to authorities and say this was the clear policy like you should have known this going in and I can just say as someone who has to deal with the legal system and deal with lawsuits I would much rather be sued as the church for reporting when I didn’t have to and someone’s saying well you didn’t have to report then dealing with the lawsuit they’re dealing with right now which is you allowed abuse to continue for seven years and to you were part of what allowed abuse to continue for seven years and you didn’t report when you should have like I would much rather be sued for the first than the second yeah and it makes no sense to me especially when you claim to be the only true church the restored the actual restored Church of Jesus Christ himself and yet you don’t have a policy in place that’s clearly protecting the children clearly

36:26 talking to the authorities about this it just it baffles me it makes absolutely no sense and it’s disgusting and it’s wrong and I’m glad that you brought up the whole um Utah’s not a mandatory reporting State because we did a live on the Ruby Frankie Jody hildbrandt cases again more cases of uh CA I guess no s in this case at least that we know of and I had mentioned I wondered if any of them had ever talked to their Bishop about this because it’s I was familiar with this case and knowing that sometimes it goes unreported and everyone in the comments was like no no no you have to be a mandatory reporting manager and was like I don’t think that that’s the case in all states so I’m glad that you mentioned that’s not the case for Utah um I just wanted to bring up this Super Chat thank you so much cat really appreciate you for the Super Chat Oscar’s jumping on me he’s excited too um wow just stumbled on your live do you know of any religions that don’t abuse

37:23 your channel is so eye openening been enjoying it for some time thank you so much I have not come across one personally doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist but obviously when you have a channel that focuses on bringing light to dark places that’s what you’re going to find is the Dark Places and so yeah it it can get really heavy and really intense thank you so much for watching and for your Super Chat guys super chats are greatly appreciated they’re not required but they will be prioritized as far as questions go and I think we’re nearing the end um of like the storytelling part so if you guys have any questions for Colby or myself specifically you can drop them in the chat um okay was there anything else that you want to talk about Colby no I think I’ve really gotten through all of the the notes I had prepared I would really push people to not take everything I say like I want PE this is something you’ll never get from the church go do your own research right like don’t just trust everything I’ve said I feel everything I’ve said is

38:23 absolutely accurate but I also welcome correction if I misstated anything here slightly one of the things I would encourage people to do is get to the bottom of this for yourself like that’s what I decided to do when this case was originally reported on because I was still kind of deciding what I we actually didn’t resign from the church until after this case was was reported on because we were actively concerned about this issue inside of the church and then when this story was reported on it was just like okay well this is just for some reason they have no interest in like changing this issue and I don’t understand it because I really believe that if you took a vote of all active Mormons 95 plus per would tell you that the church does report every time and that’s just not the truth and we see that in case after case after case and that’s the part that’s the most frustrating to me is the law as broken as it is and we’ve already touched on the fact that the church has lobbied to keep it the way that it is allows for

39:20 them not to report at their option it doesn’t have to be that way they could report if they want to now but even with that they choose not to and and they continue to hold out to members and to members of the public that they do and that’s the part that bothers me is at least be honest about your decision and guess where else I learned that from chalice it was from the Mormon church was to be honest they really they really don’t like they really really don’t like when you take the lessons you learned inside and apply it to it against accountability what’s that rep what’s that we don’t say that we’re sorry we just say we never taught that but no I you know I know I’ve been really strong about the church and it’s and some of its policies here I say this every time I’m like I love Mormon people if you’re an active believer I’m not trying to take away your faith but you can disagree with the way the church is

40:16 handling these cases and I would encourage you to get to the bottom of it for yourself don’t just take me at my word do your own research come to your own conclusions about um this cas based on the primary documents like go back to the transcripts and stuff I read you a quote from the sentencing transcript go read those things before you reach your conclusion but you don’t have to agree with everything the church does just because you believe in its theological claims or just because it’s been important to you or important to your family that’s what I’m asking people to make space for is make space for the fact that the church can still be whatever you think it is today and be wrong on this one issue yeah and I do want to point out before I forget in case anyone is wondering what has happened to the perpetrator as far as I’m aware he unived himself while in custody correct that okay yeah I I just think that like you

41:13 said most people have absolutely no idea that this is going on behind the scenes because that’s not the church we were raised in right we were raised that this is the true honest church and they do everything with God by their side and they are led by God and the prophets are led by God and spoken to by God and you just have this image you put them on a pedestal and it’s like wow the Church of Jesus Christ of latterday saints is a true church and I’m part of it and I’m awesome too and I get it I’ve been there I was that person 100% very devout would defend the church at any turn so the reason that we do these podcasts and the reason that we bring light to this is so like you said current members of the church who have this bright shiny aidea of it can get taken down a notch and realize oh there’s something else going on here and it’s okay to disagree and still have faith like you said if that’s

42:06 what you want to do if that if that’s what makes you happy but we just want people to have all the information all the facts so that they know what that church that they love so dearly is doing or not doing to protect this family unit that they hold in such high esteem because I would shocked to hear about this and what I would have loved Colby what I would have loved is instead of the church saying yay we did it we won they didn’t have to report the abuse how about a press release that’s something like we are in Shock we did not realize that this was not reported which that would have been a lie because their official attorneys told them not to do it but pretend pretend their official attorneys didn’t know and they didn’t get involved and all of that and they said we it has come to our attention that cases like this have been going unnoticed for far too long it is time that we step up our game it is time that we protect these kids it is time that we make this mandatory reporting in every

43:11 single state regardless of the laws we want our Bishops to protect these children how much more powerful would that have been I would have been like wow good job I will give you a round of applause for stepping up up actually owning your mistakes taking accountability and making amends and making reparations to help the future of this church that is crumbling because so many people are leaving when they hear about stuff like this and they’re just confused which I get it it is confusing to hear about stuff like this when you put all of your heart and your soul into this organization this is not just a go on Sundays type of church it is your entire life it is your entire existence your identity and I know because I was part of it you know how it is is when you’re Mormon it is you that is who you are whether or not you want to admit it so just I just wish that they would evolve instead of devolve just to

44:09 protect their name I wish they would own up to some things and and make changes real changes that can actually save children can save lives can save any of this Trauma from ever happening and by putting their foot down and really truly standing as a representative of Jesus Christ if that’s what they want to claim it’s just I’m just on my soap box so I’m a little round up I mean I completely agree you know hearing you talk about what you want like I’m just going to come back to the real simple statement on the church’s website about abuse and it’s there today like it says the first responsibility of church leaders is to help those who have been abused and to protect those who may be vulnerable to Future abuse you have that in your manual do it stand up to that stop saying you’re doing that and then making the complete opposite argument when you’re in court like do what you say you taught me to do it you do it that’s my that’s my takeaway is stop claiming to do something that you’re not

45:14 doing and that is demonstrable that you’re not doing stop it yes and on top of that it’s not that they’re just not doing something it’s that they’re actively lobbying to keep these laws in place guys they are just saying one thing and doing the complete opposite putting money and time and effort in resources into keeping these laws in place so they don’t have to be mandatory reporters it’s just it blows my mind and it gets me so worked up and angry and I’m so glad that I’m not a part of it anymore me too me too I no honestly so I went to BYU so I have BYU on my resume and I hate it because I don’t I don’t want I mean as much as I love the Mormon people and as much as I love so many things that I I learn from being raised in that culture there’s a lot of bad things too but some of the things I love but like I’m honestly embarrassed to have that on my resume because this is like people who are not even connected to Mormonism except tangentially like they’re following this story they’re seeing this stuff and I

46:17 don’t want anyone to ever think that I would be okay with that and that’s one of the reasons I’ve been so outspoken on this topic is the church is wrong and it needs to repent like it t us yeah it needs to take accountability and make changes actual changes step up their game this is my call to the leaders of the church who will never see this change your game actually protect the people you are claiming to protect do the work no matter if it puts a stain on your image this is actually a quite bigger stain even though you’re trying to hide it and pretend like it didn’t happen and have these fuzzy press releases about we protect the kids people know because there’s the internet now and people can find out what you’re really up to right so with that I feel like we have exhausted this unless I just keep talking in circles because I’m so riled up about it thank you so much for coming on and talking this through with me I was like who’s the person for this Colby col’s my guy I need to call

47:18 him I called him yesterday so thanks for being willing to jump on so last minute of course can I just say how much I love how uh how much attention and how much growth your channel has seen it’s you’re doing amazing things and I try and listen to as much as I can so I’m happy to come back anytime thank you for inviting me yay you’re our resident lawyer officially perfect yeah I think when we had you on we were at like not even 5,000 subscribers maybe I don’t know um I don’t remember I think maybe like 30,000 or something was it 30 was it that not that long ago maybe in Mar anyway doesn’t matter um guys thank you so much for jump juming on with us we’ve had quite a few people the comments have been off the charts I didn’t have Jonathan today he had to go Runo something so I was kind of like trying to scroll through your comments and and feature the ones that I that caught my eye so thank you for joining us today on this Saturday morning or wherever you are in the world if you want to support

48:13 the podcast you can get some of our Merch this is one of uh my favorites apostates unite I found when a lot of EX Mormons would put in the comments something about I was X Mormon I would always say apostate unite so so this is one of my favorites our bestseller though has got to be the I’m sorry for what I said when I was an a cult t-shirt everyone loves that one um you can find that on our website at colto consciousness.com under the merch Tab and we are finalizing our details for our first ctoc vacation together it’s going to be so exciting I can’t tell you where we’re going yet but we are finalizing all of that so if you want to be one of the first to be able to sign up because there’s going to be limited spots we did put a link in the description where you can click enter your email so you will get the notification when the trip goes live and um yeah that’s about it thank you guys so much for joining us have an amazing day like uh like And subscribe of course

49:10 help boost the algorithm some more people can see this and I think that’s it any final thoughts Colby no thank you so much and thanks for all the kind comments I could see on the side thank you everybody y thanks guys continue to comment after the live ends because it also help helps and until next time follow your highest excitement be conscious and be well